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Blue's 2017 Draft Thread and Big Board

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  • Blue's 2017 Draft Thread and Big Board

    Spoiler alert: I don't have a big board yet. OP will be updated once I do. For now, I just want to talk prospects.

    Oklahoma LT Orlando Brown caught my eye just because he's sooooo big (6-8, 357). He's just a redshirt sophomore but could declare depending on how Oklahoma does and whether other Sooners go pro. He's not the quickest guy in pass protection, but his sheer size helps him control the edge. He only had about 4-5 bad plays when matched up against Derek Barnett last year out of 39 passing plays.

    Speaking of Tennessee Edge Derek Barnett, I have not been terribly impressed with him through two games. He's obviously a gifted athlete with the potential to play 3-4 OLB. He's very fast and a handful off the edge, and he showed some versatility in picking up pressures on stunts inside. He's also a high-motor guy who gets a lot of pressure through pure effort. On the other hand, he would have had another half-dozen sacks if he could just wrap up when he gets his arms around the QB. Barnett also plays like he doesn't know he has hands: he was easily controlled and thrown to the ground because he simply didn't get his hands anywhere near the tackle's pads. He has very few pass rush moves and doesn't do any of the little things to keep the OT guessing, either. He looks more like a developmental prospect to me right now.

    But let's talk about one of my favorite (homer) prospects, Notre Dame QB DeShone Kizer. At this point, it would be an upset if Malik Zaire regained his starting job, and maybe even more surprising if Kizer lost his at any point. He's got a few similarities with Cam Newton and Blake Bortles out of the gate. Kizer obviously has an NFL frame (6-5, 230) and a big arm. His footwork is a lot better than you would expect from a player in a shotgun-heavy offense. Kizer places passes outside the hashes where only his receiver can get to it, which is a big plus in the two-minute drill and for picking up short, quick yardage. He's got a quick throwing motion that doesn't leave much room for defenders to interrupt it. Kizer's downfield passing is his calling card and he is very good at it. Like Newton though, accuracy and placement are spotty at times. There are plenty of throws that are a little high or behind the receiver, contributing to some of the drop issues Notre Dame had last year. While a very good athlete for the QB position, Kizer has a tendency to use his legs to pick up yardage rather than extend the play unless it's a designed rollout; he also needs to be taught to slide on scrambles rather than taking a hit. There's also a frustrating habit of staring down receivers and looking for the big play rather than taking what the defense gives him. He doesn't see the whole field consistently and needs work on the mental side of the game. Kizer isn't the same caliber of athlete or prospect Newton was, but that's the best pro comparison for him int terms of playing style and schematic fit. He's got the potential to be a top-10 pick IF he can continue to develop and keep his job for the whole year. For now, he's more of a second-round player.
    Originally posted by jepg
    I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

    I should be put on an island and nuked.
    Originally posted by jepg
    Blue is right

  • #2
    Originally posted by Blue View Post
    Speaking of Tennessee Edge Derek Barnett, I have not been terribly impressed with him through two games...He looks more like a developmental prospect to me right now.
    Hack.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Daniel View Post
      Hack.
      There's a thread for that already.
      Originally posted by jepg
      I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

      I should be put on an island and nuked.
      Originally posted by jepg
      Blue is right

      Comment


      • #4
        Of what you know so far what do you think are the strongest and weakest positions for the 2017 draft?

        I may have asked you this before but I don't remember your answer but why don't your try your hand at checking out college basketball prospects? Next year's 2017 class is supposed to be monstrous.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Daniel Brown View Post
          Of what you know so far what do you think are the strongest and weakest positions for the 2017 draft?

          I may have asked you this before but I don't remember your answer but why don't your try your hand at checking out college basketball prospects? Next year's 2017 class is supposed to be monstrous.
          Edge rusher could be insanely good, much like this year's DT class was. Myles Garrett, Carl Lawson, Derek Barnett, Devonte Fields, Tim Williams, Charles Harris, Lorenzo Carter, Dawuane Smoot, Kemoko Turay could all be early round picks. Running back could be insane too if Fournette, Dalvin Cook, Nick Chubb, Christian McCaffrey, and Samaje Perine stay healthy. Guys like Elijah Hood, Jalen Hurd, Wayne Gallman, and Kareem Hunt are gonna go in the mid-rounds when they probably would have been 2nd-3rd rounders this year.

          Offensive tackle looks like trash. Cam Robinson can't play left tackle in the NFL and I haven't seen anyone else so far who looks like they can cut it either. Maybe Rod Johnson will surprise me.

          You have. I don't look at college BB guys because I'm a pretty casual fan of basketball in general, I don't like watching college BB unless I have a stake in it (Go Nova!), and I don't have time for it even if I wanted to. Heck, I don't watch all the college football guys I want to during the season and leading up to the draft.
          Originally posted by jepg
          I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

          I should be put on an island and nuked.
          Originally posted by jepg
          Blue is right

          Comment


          • #6
            A man amongst boys on the football field, LSU RB Leonard Fournette can shrug off tackles by defensive backs and keep on going. Truly terrifying in space with his combination of size and agility to make defenders miss. Solid, willing blocker on both run and pass plays. Good vision and patience in allowing the play to develop. However, Fournette has some things he needs to clean up. Despite his great open-field ability, he doesn’t seem able to ad lib and create on his own at the LoS when his offensive line struggles. Like Derrick Henry, he may be a bit dependent on offensive line play to make the big plays in the NFL. Additionally, LSU didn’t go to him much in the passing game, and it will be a bit of a question how much he can contribute there.

            Stanford OW Christian McCaffrey has good patience and ability to get skinny in the hole. His quick acceleration with phenomenal footwork, balance, and body control that let him pick his way through traffic. McCaffrey has very little power element to his game and lacks second-level speed; he is often pulled down by the first defender who makes contact and caught from behind on long runs. He is a utility player in the mold of Reggie Bush or Danny Woodhead who can make plays as a running back, receiver, and returner but can’t be counted on as an every-down player.

            Alabama LT Cam Robinson is a good second-level blocker, and usually when he gets his hands on a guy’s pads it’s game over. He has enough athleticism to get out in space and block, but it isn’t a strong point of his game. Occasionally overextends and ends up face-first on the ground. His balance and leverage issues need to be sorted out, period, before he should be put out there as a starter. There’s too much waist-bending and overextending to count on him at left tackle, and he doesn’t have the footspeed for it anyways. Obviously blew a number of blocking assignments against TAMU, in particular. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Bryant McKinnie is the comparison I would go with.

            Stupidly good combination of length and burst make Texas A&M Edge Myles Garrett a terror in passing situations. Fantastic bend and body control. Will be nearly unstoppable once he becomes more consistent with his hand placement. Inconsistent effort on running downs. Struggles to locate the ball, especially off play-action. Very one-dimensional player with a limited pass rush arsenal but wins off sheer athleticism. A lengthier Cliff Avril is a good but conservative comparison with the potential to be an early-career Julius Peppers.

            At a listed 294 lbs, I hope there’s no longer any question where Alabama DL Jonathan Allen is playing in the NFL. Allen has good burst off the line and routinely drives linemen into the backfield in the running game. His combination of quick hands and long arms enable him to shrug off blockers as well. Allen is also quick enough to defend the spread option, which is impressive on its own. His motor is nonstop, and I would expect to get his best effort on every play. He is not a flexible or bendy prospect with straight-linish speed, and he isn’t going to run down many mobile quarterbacks. He needs to vary up his pass-rushing moves to remain an effective three-down player in the NFL; right now, he relies far too much on a simple bull rush to overpower his opponent.

            FSU RB Dalvin Cook is extremely good in space, breaking tackles with slippery strength and juking defenders with great footwork. Vision is another plus, and he has a habit of picking up extra yardage by switching to a different gap when the defense shuts down the initial play. He has good hands and has a chance to be an impact receiver in the right system. Cook does not have a ton of power, but he’s also not going down at first contact. He was clearly hobbled by the hamstring injury he suffered a month into the season, limiting his explosion and long speed. He’s a very unwilling and ineffectual blocker, which could keep him off the field depending on who his NFL coaching staff is. Combined with his tendency to give up on plays where he isn’t getting the ball and his potential conditioning issues (repeated hamstring issues), and I think it’s fair to question whether Cook can be an effective player without coaches pushing him.
            Originally posted by jepg
            I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

            I should be put on an island and nuked.
            Originally posted by jepg
            Blue is right

            Comment


            • 69MetsJetsKnicks
              69MetsJetsKnicks commented
              Editing a comment
              Hey Blue Love your comments.. they are very informative and I do agree with most of your observations. I would like to ask your thoughts on both
              Wisconsin Tackle: Ryan Ramczyk
              Indiana Guard: Dan Freenie

          • #7
            Y'all, that Alabama-LSU game last year was brutal. They were beating the tar out of each other all game and Alabama was just better.

            LSU DT Davon Godchaux regularly forces opponents to double him by getting upfield one-on-one. He does a fantastic job of getting low and has quick, active hands. Godchaux gives great effort and chases the play sideline to sideline. He also lined up everywhere on the interior, including 0 tech. Godchaux is not as consistent as you’d like to see from an interior lineman who is rotated regularly. He relies too much on winning off the snap with quickness and strength, and if the OL can get his feet set first, it’s pretty much over. Similar player and draft range as Maliek Collins this past year.

            Thick, tough, and stacks with the best of them, LSU LB Kendell Beckwith prototypical inside or middle linebacker. Great tackler and run defender. He got some opportunities as an edge rusher with mixed results. Best player for LSU against Alabama last year (even with 4 missed tackles). Just okay instincts. Struggled to get off blocks against linemen with long arms. He can’t be counted on to make plays sideline to sideline; his foot speed just isn’t good enough. Can’t play weakside 4-3 backer, but every other non-rush position should be fine.

            Lastly, LSU S Jamal Adams enjoys getting physical and blowing guys up, whether they’re carrying the ball or not. He’s mostly clean, although there are plays where he gets out of control. Plays a lot of deep safety, although he’ll end up in the box a few times per game and is a physical blitzer. Great closing speed. He goes 100 miles an hour on every play, which doesn’t leave him much breathing room on play-action or misdirection plays; might be a bit of a “fake tough guy,” because it became obvious he really wanted no part of Derrick Henry last year. Adams has the athleticism to track running quarterbacks and shut them down while still maintaining his zone in pass coverage, which is a rare thing among today’s safeties. He needs to stop delivering shoulder hits and focus more on wrapping up; it isn’t common, but it happens enough to be a concern. Definitely more of a box safety than coverage safety, as he’s slow to react and tends to give up big plays against the pass.
            Originally posted by jepg
            I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

            I should be put on an island and nuked.
            Originally posted by jepg
            Blue is right

            Comment


            • #8
              Blue if you end up leaving Myles Garrett out of your Top 5 then I'm just gonna have to lol
              CMD VI Cattle Wranglers of Arlington

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by whatdoyouwant711 View Post
                Blue if you end up leaving Myles Garrett out of your Top 5 then I'm just gonna have to lol
                He's No. 2 on the board. Fournette is the only guy in my Top 5 section right now.
                Originally posted by jepg
                I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

                I should be put on an island and nuked.
                Originally posted by jepg
                Blue is right

                Comment


                • #10
                  Y'all, Adoree Jackson looks like a real NFL cornerback so far this year and it's awesome. He finally looks comfortable as a corner and gets his jersey dirty making tackles in the running game. He has the requisite athletic ability to cover man-to-man and play the ball without needing to press. He looks a lot like Desmond Trufant did as a junior, who I also really liked coming out. He does look and play a bit small, so I don't know how effective he will be against more physical NFL receivers. He's definitely improved his standing on my board into the Day 1 mix.
                  Originally posted by jepg
                  I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

                  I should be put on an island and nuked.
                  Originally posted by jepg
                  Blue is right

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Probably the single biggest positive for Georgia RB Nick Chubb is his three-down ability. He has good length, size, and technique as a pass blocker that will keep him on the field in the NFL. Vision and patience are huge positives as well, as he rarely dives straight into the line instead of waiting for the hole to open up or find his own space. Chubb is much more effective running inside the tackles than outside, where the defense tends to get him running sideways. That said, if he gets a lane on the outside, he has the speed to break off a long run. He is a strong runner but not a pile-pusher. I am unimpressed with his feet; he gets pulled down by ankle grabbers too often. Reminds me of a less powerful Matt Forte.

                    I had a longer writeup on Notre Dame OL Mike McGlinchey and Quenton Nelson, but this trash forum cannot handle apostrophes for some idiotic reason. Long story short, both are likely first round picks either this year or next. McGlinchey has fantastic length and pass pro skills, and pretty good feet/hand usage. Nelson is a badass inside who could take over at left tackle next year, but his footwork is not as good as it could be and he ends up on skates at times.

                    The first five passes Miami QB Brad Kaaya threw against Appalachian State were behind the line of scrimmage. His sixth pass was into the endzone and nearly picked off. For the game, 11 of his 27 pass attempts were thrown behind the line of scrimmage. His interception was also a terrible decision inside the App State 5 yard line. There were a couple nice deep bombs late, but going back to last season I still have not seen anything from Kaaya to suggest he is a starter at the NFL level.
                    Last edited by Blue; 09-26-2016, 10:59 AM.
                    Originally posted by jepg
                    I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

                    I should be put on an island and nuked.
                    Originally posted by jepg
                    Blue is right

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Western Kentucky OT Forrest Lamp played very well against Alabama and has become a bit of a fan favorite prospect. He does a great job of mirroring and forcing the defender to go around him to reach the quarterback. He plays with a mean streak and does not give a damn that he is outmatched by the guys on the other side of the line. He relies too much on his strength to sustain blocks and uses his hands poorly, often grabbing the defender on his arms or bear hugging instead of getting into the pads. Lamp needs to put on strength to be a better run blocker and may be better suited to guard, which is where I have him listed at present.

                      SMU WR Courtland Sutton is huge and looks even bigger than his listed 6-4 size. He has poor acceleration off the line and struggles to create separation. Sutton has a flair for the spectacular catch, especially in traffic, and flashes the ability to physically dominate corners but does not play with a particularly mean streak. Sutton runs poor, lazy routes that allow the defender to stick with him. He needs a great deal more refinement to be a viable NFL receiver, and probably should not be counted on as a major contributor as a rookie.

                      Ole Miss TE/WR/H-Back Evan Engram has very good speed for his size and gets into his breaks quickly. He can easily threaten the seam and outrun slower linebackers at the NFL level. Hands catcher with big catch radius. Very physical, powerful player with the ball in his hands. Engram is not a good in-line blocker who can sustain a block, but he could be effective blocking in space. Eventual NFL position is an issue, as he doesn't have the size to play in-line and other non-traditional tight ends have struggled staying on the field due to injuries.

                      My God, Alabama LB Rueben Foster is fast in a straight line. Foster also has phenomenal instincts and reaction time. He has great awareness of his zone coverage responsibilities and the balls skills of a safety. Against USC, he demonstrated the ability to make plays against both the run and in coverage. Size may be a limiting factor for Foster, as a couple Alabama DBs looked bulkier. I have seen Luke Kuechley comps, but I think Thomas Davis is a more appropriate expectation.

                      Plays like a guy who was groomed on special teams, Ohio State S Malik Hooker is not afraid to hit, wrap up, and just get physical in general. Ball skills and instincts overall are fantastic. Hooker takes strong angles in run support and covers a lot of ground quickly. There are occasional plays where Hooker displays his inexperience; he has only started a handful of college games and played just two years of high school football.
                      Originally posted by jepg
                      I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

                      I should be put on an island and nuked.
                      Originally posted by jepg
                      Blue is right

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Can someone explain to me the Jabrill Peppers hype? All I see is a lightweight strong safety with no ball skills or coverage ability. I'm watching UCF and Hawaii receivers run past him, and the only thing saving him from giving up long plays is the defensive scheme that puts defenders behind him.

                        He isn't bad by any means, he's a great tackler and blitzer. I just don't see anything close to a first-round playmaker, let alone a top-10 pick like everyone is projecting. He just seems like a guy with a specific role in college who doesn't translate to the NFL.
                        Originally posted by jepg
                        I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

                        I should be put on an island and nuked.
                        Originally posted by jepg
                        Blue is right

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Blue View Post
                          Can someone explain to me the Jabrill Peppers hype? All I see is a lightweight strong safety with no ball skills or coverage ability. I'm watching UCF and Hawaii receivers run past him, and the only thing saving him from giving up long plays is the defensive scheme that puts defenders behind him.

                          He isn't bad by any means, he's a great tackler and blitzer. I just don't see anything close to a first-round playmaker, let alone a top-10 pick like everyone is projecting. He just seems like a guy with a specific role in college who doesn't translate to the NFL.
                          But two way player! TWO WAY PLAYER!

                          He seems like an alright player. As usual the Deone Bucannon comps come rolling but he looks even thinner than Bucannon to me so I don't see it.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by JLash View Post

                            But two way player! TWO WAY PLAYER!

                            He seems like an alright player. As usual the Deone Bucannon comps come rolling but he looks even thinner than Bucannon to me so I don't see it.
                            "Two-way player" is possibly my most hated phrase to see when talking about prospects. He's not playing both ways in the NFL, who cares! He is a good returner, so at least there's that.
                            Originally posted by jepg
                            I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

                            I should be put on an island and nuked.
                            Originally posted by jepg
                            Blue is right

                            Comment

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