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  • #46
    Originally posted by Castiron View Post
    Bisnowaty looked terrible in Mobile. Maybe he just had a bad week?
    Maybe. But there are bad weeks and there are bad weeks. He was beaten at least half a dozen times in the actual game and lost a ton of one on ones in the practice. I still think he's probably better than that performance, but I already only had him ahead of Garcia by a hair, so a week that bad has to drop him a few spots. There's very little difference between the second and the fifth prospect at tackle IMO.


    • #47
      At this point, I'm looking at him as a potential reserve G/RT with hopes he can develop into more. Good news is we aren't the only two guys that were expecting more from AB at the Senior Bowl. Bryan Broaddus ( was pretty disappointed as well. So, while we may be idiots, it's not because of this.
      Flinchy McTapQwik



      • #48
        Pre-Combine Big Board:

        Alright, this is based solely on game tape, without taking positional value into account (i.e. if a guard is a better guard prospect than a QB is a QB prospect, the guard will be higher). I've divided the top 40 players into tiers: Elite players, who excel in every field; excellent players, who excel in most fields, but lack elite ability in one or two areas; great prospects, that excel in most fields, but have a drawback or two (example: Zach Cunningham looks borderline elite, but is a little undersized); and good prospects, who excel in most fields but have some drawbacks. There are way more players than those listed in the fourth tier, but 40 seemed like a good stopping place and the difference between one player or another was getting slimmer.

        I also ignored injury, and merely marked players with some injury concerns with an asterisk. Sorting them based on how much they would return to form is impossible with the information I have, so I just threw it out. Obviously they drop if their injuries cause problems in the future.

        Pre-combine mock draft soon to follow.

        Elite Prospects:
        1. Myles Garrett, Edge, TAMU
        2. Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
        3. *Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
        4. Dan Feeney, OG, Indiana
        Excellent Prospects:
        1. Forrest Lamp, OG, WKU
        2. Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee
        3. Jonathan Allen, DL, Alabama
        4. Jamal Adams, S, LSU
        5. Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida St
        6. OJ Howard, TE, Alabama
        7. *Jake Butt, TE, Michigan
        8. Mike Williams, WR, Clemson
        9. DeMarcus Walker, DE, Florida St
        Great Prospects:
        1. Zach Cunningham, ILB, Vandy
        2. Solomon Thomas, Edge, Stanford
        3. Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
        4. *Malik Hooker, S, Ohio St
        5. Jalen Tabor, CB, Florida
        6. *Dorian Johnson, OG, Pitt
        7. *Malik McDowell, DL, Michigan St
        8. *Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan
        9. Bucky Hodges, TE, Virginia Tech
        10. Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
        11. D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas
        12. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
        13. *Jabril Peppers, S, Michigan
        14. Ryan Ramczyck, OT, Wisconsin
        15. Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson
        16. Desmond King, CB, Iowa

        Good Prospects:
        1. Mitch Trubisky, QB, UNC
        2. *Jalen Reeves-Maybin, ILB, Tennessee
        3. Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio St
        4. Chris Godwin, WR, Penn St
        5. Adoree Jackson, CB, USC
        6. John Ross, WR, Washington
        7. Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama
        8. Charles Harris, Edge, Missouri
        9. Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy
        10. Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
        11. Haasan Reddick, LB, Temple
        Last edited by Daniel; 02-27-2017, 04:29 PM.


        • #49
          Dan Feeney a RG or LG? High praise. I like Lamp though a change of position is hit (Nick Martin) or miss(Germain Ifedi) in year one.

          Reeves-Maybin ended the year injured, IIRC. Could do more research on him.

          Butt was a solid prospect until Trey Marshall blew him up at the Orange Bowl. Calling him near equal to LJ Howard (when healthy) means you must really like him.


          • #50
            Originally posted by miamidolphin4life View Post
            Dan Feeney a RG or LG? High praise. I like Lamp though a change of position is hit (Nick Martin) or miss(Germain Ifedi) in year one.

            Reeves-Maybin ended the year injured, IIRC. Could do more research on him.

            Butt was a solid prospect until Trey Marshall blew him up at the Orange Bowl. Calling him near equal to LJ Howard (when healthy) means you must really like him.
            I think Feeney could play either side. He's probably a better RG, but he won every matchup I saw him have, and even though he missed some time, he looked back at 100% in the Senior Bowl. Lamp would be elite if he weren't changing positions, which is why I dropped him out of that top group. I don't think he plays tackle at the next level, but he gets added points for versatility, since he may actually be able to. If I were grading him as a tackle, he'd probably be the end of the third tier. He looked great, but he'd be defying the odds with his size if he succeeded at OT in the NFL.

            Reeves-Maybin was Tennessee's best player, but he wasn't as good a prospect as some others. He's a little undersized for the pros, but if he returned to pre-injury form, I think he'd be a second rounder.

            Butt I liked more than most. Big, powerfully built, and can catch. I think with his build, he'd be a better blocker than Howard ever would, and even if he's not as fast, he'd still be a mismatch at the NFL. But that one I'm probably never getting called on because his injury was so severe.


            • #51
              Post combine positional rankings for offensive players. Defense to follow shortly.

              01. Mitch Trubisky, UNC-No reason for change here.
              02. Dehaun Watson, Clemson-Ditto.
              03. Deshone Kizer, ND-I didn't think Kizer looked good in the drills, and he wasn't as athletic as expected. Still a ton of potential, but less pro ready than I thought.
              04. Brad Kaaya, Miami-Kaaya looked solid in drills, but he's been inconsistent as hell on the field.
              05. Pat Mahomes, TTU-I didn't scout him before, but he was way less impressive than advertised. Imprecise as hell with his throws, but a big arm, at least.
              06. Davis Webb, Cal-Webb looked solid in the Pro Bowl and decent in the combine. System doesn't help him though, and he has no elite abilities.
              07. Josh Dobbs, Tennessee-Dobbs is the most athletic QB in the class, and has improved as a passer in the offseason. Still a very long way to go.
              08. Jerod Evans, Virginia Tech-He hasn't improved his mechanics at all. He's a two or three year project minimum.
              09. Chad Kelly, Ole Miss-Bonehead gets a big stock down. Still some talent, but nothing to write home about.
              10. Nathan Peterman, Pitt-When you want a pro-ready **** QB.

              01. Ryan Ramczyck, Wisconsin-No combine, no change.
              02. Antonio Garcia, Troy-Garcia measured well and looked good in the drills.
              03. Garrett Bolles, Utah-Fantastic combine. Dude is really athletic, but a 25 year old with a sketchy background and little playing time is a ton of risk.
              04. Forrest Lamp, WKU-I had him very low in the tackle rankings before, but damn if he doesn't check every box other than size.
              05. Taylor Moton, Western Michigan-Moton looked very good in the drills. More polished than I remembered him being.
              06. Cam Robinson, Bama-Robinson may be a better guard, but he has the speed and athleticism to play tackle. He'd be better on the right though, and he's a project.
              07. Aviante Collins, TCU-Man, what an athlete. I didn't watch him in games, but he looked good in drills. High upside.
              08. Adam Bisnowaty, Pitt-Great measurements, but watching him in drills, I wonder how I ever thought so highly of him.
              09. Julie'n Davenport, Bucknell-Didn't match the hype at all, but dem measurements.
              10. Will Holden, Vandy-Holden is unimpressive, but has fantastic length and no glaring weaknesses.

              01. Forrest Lamp, WKU-I didn't want to rank many players in two different places, but with his athleticism, he's a special guard prospect.
              02. Dan Feeney, Indiana-Feeney is ready to be a great guard right now. Outshined by some athletically, but better game tape than any others.
              03. Dorian Johnson, Pitt-Like Feeney, didn't blow anyone away with athleticism, but did what he needed to do.
              04. Ethan Pocic, LSU-See two above.
              05. Dion Dawkins, Temple-I wasn't sure if Dawkins was a guard or tackle, but it's pretty clear now. I like his strength.
              06. Corey Levine, Chattanooga-There was some local buzz about him, and I thought he looked great in drills. He had a fantastic 3-cone time.
              07. Isaac Asiata, Utah-Good tape, great strength, decent combine performance. Probably a right guard only though.
              08. Nico Saragusa, SDSU-I hate trying to scout guys I haven't seen in games, but he had a pretty fantastic combine.

              01. Leonard Fournette, LSU-Showed up heavy and his jumps were terrible, but his 40 was still good.
              02. Dalvin Cook, Florida St-Not a particularly impressive combine, but his game tape is fantastic.
              03. D'Onta Foreman, Texas-Showed up in a good weight range, then left. No change.
              04. Alvin Kamara, Tennessee-Great explosiveness, but his 40 time left something to be desired.
              05. Christian McCaffrey, Stanford-Quick, and catches the ball well. Not a bell cow back though, which limits him.
              06. Brian Hill, Wyoming-Hands a little small, but a good performance.
              07. Corey Clement, Wisconsin-A slow 40 time, but I like his tape. He'd be a great complimentary back.
              08. Joe Mixon, Oklahoma-Subtraction by addition. No reason to risk him with so many other solid options.
              09. Samaje Perine, Oklahoma-Clearly a workout warrior, I like him as a power back with a low center of gravity.
              10. Jeremy McNichols, Boise St-Hated some of his tape, but he had a decent combine.

              01. Mike Williams, Clemson-No change here.
              02. John Ross, Washington-OK, he's way faster than I gave him credit for.
              03. Chris Godwin, Penn St-Great combine, so he doesn't fall in my rankings.
              04. Corey Davis, Western Michigan-He may end up higher, but with Godwin and Ross being such studs, no reason to take an injured guy.
              05. Zay Jones, ECU-Man he's had a great postseason. Great showing at the combine seemingly confirms his SB performance.
              06. Curtis Samuel, Ohio St-I thought he was kind of a tweener before, but he's clearly got all the tools to be a great receiver.
              07. Juju Smith-Schuster, USC-He drops because so many other receivers are climbing. Still a good pro prospect.
              08. KD Cannon, Baylor-He was a little smaller than I thought, but he showed great speed and a good vertical.
              09. Josh Malone, Tennessee-Malone had a small role at Tennessee, but he has fantastic measureables and athleticism. Some good tape too, just not much of it.
              10. Cooper Kupp, Eastern Washington-He had such a great SB I have to think there's something a little flukey about his 40 time.

              01. OJ Howard, Bama-No change.
              02. Bucky Hodges, Virginia Tech-This is the raw, athletic freak of a TE everyone thinks Njoku is. He has better hands too.
              03. Evan Engram, Ole Miss-Smaller than the others, but crazy fast. Better blocker than he gets credit for, excellent receiver.
              04. David Njoku, Miami-Raw, but athletically gifted. A bit of a project.
              05. Gerald Everetty, South Alabama-He had some hype at the SB, and had a decent combine. He'd get more hype in a less ridiculous class.
              06. George Kittle, Iowa-Surprised by this guy. He was supposed to be just a blocker, but looked good in drills and was really athletic.
              07. Jake Butt, Michigan-I worry he'll never be the same, but as good as he was, he still outranks the rest as a potential future stud.
              08. Jordan Leggett, Clemson-He did not have a good combine, drill wise. Watson and Williams may have inflated his stock.
              09. Jonnu Smith, FIU-He looked solid in drills, had a great physical performance, and I like his backstory.
              Last edited by Daniel; 03-08-2017, 12:43 AM.


              • #52
                Defensive post-combine positional rankings. (Note-for schools with multiple DBs near the top, I usually hold it against the No. 2 guy for being on the same team as the No. 1 guy, since being across from a stud makes their job easier to do; so guys like Lattimore are going to be a little lower in my rankings than pure tape or numbers would normally put them)

                CB (Ranked 15 of them because of the deep class):
                01. Gareon Conley, Ohio St-Blue turned me on to Conley early in the season, and everything I've seen of him in and after the season makes me like him more than Lattimore. Looked great in the combine drills, but lacks physicality as a tackler.
                02. Desmond King, Iowa-His 40 time could drop him, but he showed that he's quick at the combine and I just love his game tape. Probably needs to play in the zone, but his skills are well-rounded, more thann any other corner in this class.
                03. Adoree Jackson, USC-Jackson didn't impress me as much as he did some on the field, but his 40 time (and Godwin's ridiculous combine) makes me trust a little more my early season evaluation of him).
                04. Marlon Humphrey, Bama-Humphrey seemed overrated to me since I think his teammate Fitzpatrick is such a stud, but he looked outstanding in the drills and is another well-rounded corner.
                05. Jalen Tabor, Florida-Tabor looks fantastic on tape, but had some trouble with big receivers and seemed an easy guy to block downfield. That and an all around horrible combine makes me think he's not nearly as good as the tape makes him out to be.
                06. Tre-Davious White, LSU-Another corner who's limited to a zone system, White can definitely take on more physical receivers and running backs.
                07. Marshon Lattimore, Ohio St-I'm skeptical of Lattimore, but he's certainly got a ton of athleticism, even if Conley helped him out. Could be better than I give him credit for.
                08. Fabian Moreau, UCLA-I was unaware of this guy before the combine. Watching some tape on him, he's not got great ball skills or tackling, but he stays on receivers and is crazy fast.
                09. Cam Sutton, Tennessee-Sutton has short arms and isn't as quick as he used to be, but he's got some great game tape. He seemed faster than at the SB in the combine, so I think he's regaining some of that lost speed.
                10. Ahkello Witherspoon, Colorado-Witherspoon misses tackles a lot, but he looks pretty good in coverage, and blew the combine away. A project with a lot of upside.
                11. Sidney Jones, Washington-Just to be clear, Jones is the best corner in this class, but with an Achilles rupture, he won't play his first year and may not return to form. Still worth taking over the guys below for the possible future benfits.
                12. Cordrea Tankersley, Clemson-Sloppy player, but fairly athletic with some good college production. Probably only a nickel, but has some upside.
                13. Jordan Lewis, Michigan-A little small, and not very fast, but Lewis looks great on the field and in the SB. Probably not athletic enough for the pros, but could be a decent rotational player.
                14. Chidobe Awuzie, Colorado-Awuzie did not impress me when I watched his tape. He plays with too much cushion and misses tackles, but he looked proficient at the combine.
                15. Quincy Wilson, Florida-Wilson may be a better prospect than Tabor physically, but he has the same weaknesses as a tackler and spent more time against No. 2 threats. His athleticism is nothing to write home about anyway.

                01. Jamal Adams, LSU-Does it all. Surprised by his 40 time but who cares. Wasn't too low to be a concern.
                02. Malik Hooker, Ohio St-One year wonder coming off an injury, but his ability is too good to overlook.
                02. Jabrill Peppers, Michigan-Peppers was faster than I thought at the combine. Even with added weight, he'll be a great strong safety.
                04. Budda Baker, Washington-Baker was slower than I thought at the combine, but he plays fast, and plays all over the field.
                05. Obi Melifonwu, UConn-Needs some work, but he still produced in college despite sloppy tackling. Physical ability is hard to believe, and ceiling is unreal.
                06. Marcus Williams, Utah-I was worried Williams would be a little slow, but his combine numbers were respectable. Great vertical.
                07. Josh Jones, NC St-Another guy I got turned onto at the combine. He looked way more fluid in the drills than his game tape suggests. Another high upside guy.
                08. Marcus Maye, Florida-I worry about his injury, but the other 2 Florida DBs looked like garbage at the combine, so more credit may need to go to Maye. Great size at least.
                09. Orion Stewart, Baylor-Loved him in the bowl game. Really would've liked to see him at the combine.
                10. Justin Evans, TAMU-Another guy who didn't work out and falls as a result.

                01. Zach Cunningham, Vanderbilt-Showed up heavier than I thought at the combine and still impressed. Best read-and-react linebacker in the draft.
                02. Reuben Foster, Bama-Showed up much lighter than I thought he should be and made a super boneheaded move to get kicked out. Not worth the bonehead risk ahead of Cunningham.
                03. Haasan Reddick, Temple-Blew up the combine. Still a project to move to LB, but clearly super talented and athletics.
                04. Raekwon McMillan, Ohio St-Performed really well at the combine and was a tackling machine in college.
                05. Duke Riley, LSU-Worst haircut ever, but I liked what I saw in the season, and liked more what I saw at the combine.
                06. Jalen Reeves-Maybin, Tennessee-Reeves-Maybin looked polished in the drills, but the biggest thing for him is health. He looked like he was coming along fine, but that shoulder is still a risk.
                07. Jarrad Davis, Florida-I didn't get the hype with Davis during the season, and no combine performance.
                08. Josey Jewell, Iowa-I liked him when I watched his tape, but would've liked to see him at the combine.
                09. Brandon Bell, Penn St-Ditto.
                10. Alex Anzalone, Florida-Another Florida LB with some injury problems, his stock is rising as he looked solid this postseason
                Last edited by Daniel; 03-14-2017, 03:32 PM.


                • #53
                  A couple things:

                  How does playing across from another good corner make your job easier? Wouldn't that mean you got tested more?

                  Sidney Jones ruptured his Achilles.

                  Can't knock Jourdan Lewis' height and not even mention it with Adoree Jackson considering they're the exact same size.


                  • #54
                    01. Myles Garrett, TAMU-Obviously.
                    02. Derek Barnett, Tennessee-Despite being sick during the combine, he posted respectable numbers in the jumps and looked decent in drills. He'll probably be 5-10 lbs heavier and run in the 4.7s at his pro day.
                    03. Demarcus Walker, Florida St-I wish he'd worked out at the combine, but I still love him as a prospect.
                    04. Solomon Thomas, Stanford-I like Thomas, but I also think he's being a bit overhyped. Athletic as hell and a good effort guy.
                    05. Jordan Willis, Kansas St-A guy I've had high up for a while, and his good postseason keeps reassuring me he belongs this high.
                    06. TJ Watt, Wisconsin-I wasn't sure whether to put Watt as a rusher or a LB, but after seeing him in the postseason, his best fit looks to be as a 3-4 OLB.
                    06. Charles Harris, Missouri-Harris didn't have a great combine, and had a slow start to the season. He looked like a top talent when he was on, but there are some concerns there.
                    08. Taco Charlton, Michgan-Another player that I like, but think is overhyped. He doesn't have the dominant tape or athleticism to be a top pick, but can't argue with his measurements.
                    09. Carl Lawson, Auburn-Lawson blew up the combine, but he's also a player that disappears regularly. Everyone knows he's an athlete, but if he's lazy, it doesn't matter.
                    10. Takkarist McKinley, UCLA-He's a pass rusher, so intelligence doesn't matter much, but he may be difficult to coach. Couldn't even get a drill right. Athletic for days though.
                    10. Tanoh Kpassagnon, Villanova-Looked good in the SB, looked solid in drills, and unreal measurements. He's technically big enough to play 3-4 end, but with his build, I think he's more a 4-3 end.

                    01. Jonathan Allen, Bama-His shoulders scare me. But he's undoubtedly a fantastic player, and the shoulders didn't seem to affect his bench press.
                    02. Malik McDowell, Michigan St-A lot of people don't seem to like McDowell, but I still love him. The guy looks every bit as dominant as Allen when he's on.
                    03. Carlos Watkins, Clemson-Watkins didn't participate in the combine, but I am completely satisfied by his game tape.
                    04. Nazair Jones, UNC-There's a big dropoff at this point in the rankings, but I still like Jones. He looked decent in the drills, but didn't blow me away.
                    05. Montravious Adams, Auburn-Adams makes a big jump by being one of the few interior guys to shine at the combine.
                    06. Elijah Qualls, Washington-I liked Qualls a good bit in his bowl game, but I thought he wasn't particularly athletic. He proved me wrong.
                    07. Jeremiah Ledbetter, Arkansas-I liked Ledbetter before the postseason and after a decent postseason, I like him a bit more, though he didn't shine at the combine.
                    08. Chris Wormley, Michigan-Wormley lucked out by not participating in the combine and looking like garbage, like a lot of the other DTs I liked.
                    09. DJ Jones, Ole Miss-I thought Jones looked fantastic at every stage of the combine, considering his size. He got handled by Pocic though.
                    10. Caleb Brantley, Florida-I continue to be unimpressed by Brantley, and can't understand what the hype is all about.


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JLash View Post
                      A couple things:

                      How does playing across from another good corner make your job easier? Wouldn't that mean you got tested more?

                      Sidney Jones ruptured his Achilles.

                      Can't knock Jourdan Lewis' height and not even mention it with Adoree Jackson considering they're the exact same size.
                      1. Not necessarily. In the pros, perhaps. But if the No. 1 corner is on the other team's No. 1 receiver, a lot of the college QBs aren't exactly great at moving through their reads, especially in spread offenses, and the secondary receiver options aren't optimal. And the dropoff from your premiere player to the next best target is usually bigger in college. Not to mention safety/linebacker/nickel help that likely goes your way if you're the No. 2 corner. You may see more throws your way, but if the guy you're going against is way less talented, you aren't really more tested.
                      It's the same reason Alabama players produce so many busts that looked great on tape. When everyone around you is doing their job, it makes it a whole lot easier to do yours, and minimizes the damage when you don't.
                      Lastly, if playing No. 2 corner was tougher, then we'd be putting the No. 1 corner as the No. 2.

                      2. Thanks for the correction.

                      3. I get you, but I'm not making a detailed writeup of every strength and weakness. Lewis isn't the only corner who's a little smaller than average, but I've like Jackson from the get-go, because I thought he often looked like an elite corner prospect, and have talked about him a lot more, so he got a little more detail than Lewis in the writeup. These are brief; can't cover everything I like and dislike about every player.


                      • #56
                        For what it's worth, few college defenses move their corners around. Many play sides, and almost none of them shadow an opponent's No. 1 from what I've seen.
                        Originally posted by jepg
                        I apologise to the entire Walter Football community for my bigoted views.

                        I should be put on an island and nuked.
                        Originally posted by jepg
                        Blue is right


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Blue View Post
                          For what it's worth, few college defenses move their corners around. Many play sides, and almost none of them shadow an opponent's No. 1 from what I've seen.
                          Fair enough. I still think there are plenty of reasons playing across from a stud corner makes your job as the other corner easier.

                          I mean, at the most basic level, to say otherwise is essentially to say having a stud player makes things harder for the team or weakens the defense.

                          Or, if Conley, Lattimore, and Hooker are really all top-end first round talents, then other Big 10 teams shouldn't have been able to complete more than about 10 total passes against the Ohio State defense all season.