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  • #31
    All I know is if I'm a team in financial trouble and I can't trade away my top 10 pick and I'm forced to reach for someone, it's going to be someone who is going to put fans in the seats and money into my pockets. Whose to say he won't turn out to be a great quarterback?

    I'm not defending the guy, but Walt is spot on with the premise of this whole argument. The fact that Tebow's jersey is flying off the shelfs and Broncos away games are getting sold out already because Tebow might see the field is all the proof needed to back up Walts argument that Tebow = money
    Last edited by TeHDruiD; 04-28-2010, 10:22 AM.
    GO BROWNS!

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    • #32
      I fail to see how a move is financially unsound if it helps the owner of a franchise to move into the Los Angeles market.

      Especially if the original market was in freaking Jacksonville.
      Adam Schefter, August 25, 2009
      "He's getting a lot of heat now, but someone who knows coaches well predicted to me that McDaniels is going to be one of the greatest NFL coaches ever. Strong words, I know, and we'll see. But I think he's going to be a real good one".

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      • #33
        Originally posted by loneweasel View Post
        I fail to see how a move is financially unsound if it helps the owner of a franchise to move into the Los Angeles market.

        Especially if the original market was in freaking Jacksonville.
        haha, well that's a totally different argument
        GO BROWNS!

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        • #34
          Can you define what an "H-Back" is? I'm quite sure you are using it wrong; Nobody even uses the H-Back in the NFL anymore, but people throw it around like Lindsay Lohan at a rainbow party.
          I'd seriously like an answer to this.

          It seems that any TE that lines up in the backfield on occasion is an H-Back now.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by purple2000 View Post
            I'd seriously like an answer to this.

            It seems that any TE that lines up in the backfield on occasion is an H-Back now.
            I think that is how it's being used, and Joe Gibbs did line the H-Back up in the backfield, but just to block LT, not as an additional offensive weapon. People talk about Cooley being an H-Back now, but I don't get that. He's just a good receiving TE who can be versatile. The term is just thrown out a lot without any meaning. One thing's for sure, I'm not sure why Tebow would ever be considered for an "H-Back" spot...

            After some research, here's a great quote I found:
            "The concept of the H-back originated in the 1980s with Joe Gibbs and the Redskins. The thought emerged from the need to get a blocker into the body of Lawrence Taylor quickly.

            The term H-back basically means, "motion TE." The Skins would typically use 1 RB, 1 TE, 2 WR, and this H-back as their base offensive personnel grouping. The in-line TE would be a bigger, more blocking-focused player. The H-back would be a somewhat more maneuverable type, but still a blocking-focused guy. He would usually line up 1 step behind the line of scrimmage, either outside the in-line TE (double wing,) or outside the weakside Tackle (balanced,) depending on the particular play. He'd frequently go in motion, either taking the offense from the double wing look to a balanced look, or from a balanced look to a double wing look. The famous Redskins Counter Trey usually began from a balanced Ace set, and featured the H-back motioning to the strong side, and sealing the backside edge along with the in-line TE, with the backside Guard & Tackle pulling to the playside to lead the running play.

            The perception among media hacks is that any TE who catches the ball better than he blocks is an H-back, especially if he wears a number in the 40s (like Chris Cooley and Dallas Clark.) In actuality, the H-back position was conceived to get a good blocker into position to block an edge defensive player quickly. It was simply a redeployment of the traditional fullback, strategy-wise. The FB is usually hitting an ILB, and the H-back would usually hit an OLB.

            H-backs, in the true sense of the concept, are not commonly used in today's NFL schemes. The use of the term H-back is almost always misplaced by media types, to make themselves sound like they know what they are talking about. It's sort of like the term "Wildcat," how that has become so commonplace."
            That's from Ted Bartlett, who now writes for Smarterfans.com. His definition of the H-Back was verified by a HS Defensive Coordinator and student of the game Steve Nichols, who writes for Mile High Report.

            However, Pat Kirwan disagrees, and defines an H-Back as this:
            Then there's the H-back. Chris Cooley in Washington is probably the ideal example. These players have the ability to line up anywhere -- as a back, split out, or in motion -- using their alignments in combination with their speed and receiving skills to exploit weaknesses in coverage. Generally thought to lack the size and strength to be dominant blockers, players such as Cooley and recent Jets draft pick Dustin Heller are generally better when asked to block in open space. But make no mistake; the H-back is considered an offensive weapon, especially in a West Coast type offense that relies on short underneath routes. He can be the best friend of a young quarterback who needs a reliable target in the middle of the field. Just take a look at Cooley's numbers in recent years and you'll see what I mean.
            Link to all that.
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            • #36
              Originally posted by purple2000 View Post
              I'd seriously like an answer to this.

              It seems that any TE that lines up in the backfield on occasion is an H-Back now.
              My understanding of a modern H-back is basically a TE who sometimes lines up as a FB and has the versatility to be a lead blocker for a run play, pass protect from either spot or run a route.

              H-Back standing for hybrid back since the player is basically a combo TE/FB

              EDIT: Ninja'd by someone more knowledgeable and with more research but yeah in the same ballpark

              EDIT2: Oh, and I don't think Tebow would be good as one

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              • #37
                Originally posted by studbucket View Post
                Can you define what an "H-Back" is? I'm quite sure you are using it wrong; Nobody even uses the H-Back in the NFL anymore, but people throw it around like Lindsay Lohan at a rainbow party.

                Link 1
                That's not how I use it. When I list the H-backs on the Colts, they are Brody Eldridge and Tom Santi. Basically a mix of a fullback and a tight end used in a more pass-happy offense. Gijon Robinson was our H-back last year. I don't think Tebow is fast or small enough to be what Clayton uses it as. I definitely use it in it's original form.

                EDIT: Since I picked up the term H-back from Stampede Blue, it's the Mile High Report since the Broncos lead blogger there and Brad Wells at Stampede Blue have a very creepy bromance going on.
                Colts CMD

                QB-Peyton Manning
                RB-
                WR-Anquan Boldin
                WR-Doug Baldwin
                WR-Mohamed Sanu
                TE-Kyle Rudolph
                LT-Eugene Monroe
                LG-Matt Slauson
                C-Roberto Garza
                RG-Willie Colon
                RT-Joe Barksdale

                DE-Michael Bennett
                DT-Terrance Knighton
                DT-Tony McDaniel
                DE-Robert Ayers
                OLB-Malcolm Smith
                MLB-Kiko Alonso
                OLB-
                CB-Alterraun Verner
                CB-
                FS-Michael Griffin
                SS-Marcus Gilchrist

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Colts Homer View Post
                  EDIT: Since I picked up the term H-back from Stampede Blue, it's the Mile High Report since the Broncos lead blogger there and Brad Wells at Stampede Blue have a very creepy bromance going on.
                  Yeah, they used to do a weekly podcast together, talking about tons of sports. I never listened, but John Bena (formerly TheSportsGuru) will mention BigBlueShoe (I think that's Brad Wells) relatively often.
                  I'm tweeting, and you like it.

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                  • #39
                    They sound like they are in love when they talk. They can make a podcast uncomfortable in about 20 seconds.
                    Colts CMD

                    QB-Peyton Manning
                    RB-
                    WR-Anquan Boldin
                    WR-Doug Baldwin
                    WR-Mohamed Sanu
                    TE-Kyle Rudolph
                    LT-Eugene Monroe
                    LG-Matt Slauson
                    C-Roberto Garza
                    RG-Willie Colon
                    RT-Joe Barksdale

                    DE-Michael Bennett
                    DT-Terrance Knighton
                    DT-Tony McDaniel
                    DE-Robert Ayers
                    OLB-Malcolm Smith
                    MLB-Kiko Alonso
                    OLB-
                    CB-Alterraun Verner
                    CB-
                    FS-Michael Griffin
                    SS-Marcus Gilchrist

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TeHDruiD View Post
                      I'm not defending the guy, but Walt is spot on with the premise of this whole argument. The fact that Tebow's jersey is flying off the shelfs and Broncos away games are getting sold out already because Tebow might see the field is all the proof needed to back up Walts argument that Tebow = money
                      There's no factual proof that drafting Bustbow would actually get the Gator fans in the area to buy season tickets instead of watching the game on TV. They are college fans first and foremost, the NFL means a whole lot of nothing. The entire basis of Walt's silly argument is banking on the assumption that the Gator fans will really give a **** about an NFL team and use their disposable income on the Jags rather than the Gators since most can only really do one or the other. Those fans aren't going to stick around for two years(hell, maybe not even one year) because you're never going to convert them no matter which Gators you draft or how many of them you draft.

                      And like Athuridon already said, Walt doesn't seem to like giving out correct info about the Jags as it is(hell, he doesn't even bother to mention that the Jags' season tickets are already ahead of last year's totals), so this whole thing just reeks of him having some bizarre man-crush on Tebow.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by SilentJaguar View Post
                        There's no factual proof that drafting Bustbow would actually get the Gator fans in the area to buy season tickets instead of watching the game on TV.
                        Come on, if you're gonna slander the guy, at least do it well. Te-bust is obviously a much better name than Bustbow.
                        I'm tweeting, and you like it.

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                        • #42
                          I think this entire argument is taking away from the fact that the Jaguars will be moving to a new city in the next few seasons.
                          WalterFootball.com Forum Moderator




                          Siena NFL ATS Record(TBD)
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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by SilentJaguar View Post
                            There's no factual proof that drafting Bustbow would actually get the Gator fans in the area to buy season tickets instead of watching the game on TV. They are college fans first and foremost, the NFL means a whole lot of nothing. The entire basis of Walt's silly argument is banking on the assumption that the Gator fans will really give a **** about an NFL team and use their disposable income on the Jags rather than the Gators since most can only really do one or the other. Those fans aren't going to stick around for two years(hell, maybe not even one year) because you're never going to convert them no matter which Gators you draft or how many of them you draft.

                            And like Athuridon already said, Walt doesn't seem to like giving out correct info about the Jags as it is(hell, he doesn't even bother to mention that the Jags' season tickets are already ahead of last year's totals), so this whole thing just reeks of him having some bizarre man-crush on Tebow.
                            The proof is Tebow's jerseys are flying off the shelves and the Broncos vs Jaguars game is already sold out. Could it be for reasons other than Tebow? Sure. But I gotta believe it's because Tebow is coming to town.

                            Also it doesn't have to be gator fans, their is something about Tebow that draws people in and it goes beyond just Gator fans. To us (draftniks) he's just a huge project of a QB who has a long ways to go to be anything in the NFL. To people who don't really follow the draft process and the evaluation of what makes a QB good they think Tebow is some non-human entity sent down from god himself to dominate football.

                            lol, I don't mean to make it sound ridiculous, but at the same time I had to word it to where it'd make sense.

                            Basically to us, Tebow has a long ways to go. To the normal person, Tebow should have a bust in Canton waiting for him right now
                            Last edited by TeHDruiD; 04-28-2010, 01:12 PM.
                            GO BROWNS!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by studbucket View Post
                              Come on, if you're gonna slander the guy, at least do it well. Te-bust is obviously a much better name than Bustbow.
                              Bleh, he doesn't warrant any creativity on my part.

                              And I still find this article funny since single-game tickets aren't even on-sale yet and the "Bronco" fans would have to buy season tickets in order to see their idol right now. Walt would be better served to do some fact-checking before parroting stuff written by idiots who don't know what they're talking about.

                              The proof is Tebow's jerseys are flying off the shelves and the Broncos vs Jaguars game is already sold out.
                              Might wanna brush up on the facts there, champ.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by SilentJaguar View Post
                                Bleh, he doesn't warrant any creativity on my part.

                                And I still find this article funny since single-game tickets aren't even on-sale yet and the "Bronco" fans would have to buy season tickets in order to see their idol right now. Walt would be better served to do some fact-checking before parroting stuff written by idiots who don't know what they're talking about.


                                Might wanna brush up on the facts there, champ.
                                Ok smartass, he's going to eventually help lead to that game being sold-out, it's the same difference. You're quick to argue about Tebow, but never back it up with any information that would sway any of our opinions about why you disagree with this topic. It's always "theirs no proof of this, theirs no proof of that", wheres your proof that none of this is valid. If you want to debate something atleast have a basis for the argument other than saying theirs no proof to our argument

                                To be honest, I really could careless if your team gets moved but if I have a chance to make back some much needed money I'm going to. You know the team is relocating anyways, so why not make the money why it's there. Once again, stupid stupid Jaguars.
                                GO BROWNS!

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