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WF.com Official Consensus NBA Rankings- Top 10 SF's [PG/SG results]

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  • WF.com Official Consensus NBA Rankings- Top 10 SF's [PG/SG results]

    The second batch of consensus rankings finally tallied, our numbers dropped with only 9 people sending it rankings[im looking at you CJ, we want your opinion and others...] cannot believe we have that few people check this forum. As I said tyreke and Iggy were not counted as SG's they are now available to be ranked, , Lebron will be ignored.

    Consensus PG Rankings[1st place votes]
    1. Chris Paul- 103 [7]
    2. Derrick Rose- 101.5 [4]
    3. Deron Williams- 85
    4. Russell Westbrook- 75.5
    5. Rajon Rondo- 65
    6. Steve Nash- 52
    7. Tony Parker- 50
    8. Stephen Curry- 18 [highest ranking was 6th]
    9. Kyle Lowry- 18 [highest ranking was 7th]
    10. Kyrie Irving- 9

    Consensus SG Rankings[1st place votes]
    1. Dwayne Wade 87 [6]
    2. Kobe Bryant 84 [3]
    3. Manu Ginobli 59
    4. Monta Ellis 49
    5. Joe Johnson 48
    6. James Harden 47
    7. Eric Gordon 36
    8. Kevin Martin 21
    9. Ray Allen 19
    10. Paul George 14

    Others Receiving Votes
    OJ Mayo 6
    Tony Allen 3
    Demarr Derozan 3
    Aaron Affalo 2
    Jason Terry 1
    Last edited by vikingfan; 04-18-2012, 03:15 AM.

  • vikingfan
    replied
    sometime I will put them up, had the whooping cough for two weeks and then been depressed about NBA for obvious reasons

    Leave a comment:


  • CrazyCarl
    replied
    Where is the PF thread?

    Leave a comment:


  • Death To Sticky Threads
    replied
    He averages 4 turnovers per game. Most in the league.

    The Dirk point is an awful one. Have you ever thought that maybe Dirk is just tired from playing an extra month of basketball last year? Not that Deron will have to worry about the postseason any time soon.

    If you don't think Derrick Rose is a superior defender to Deron Williams, you are not a knowledgable basketball fan. Period. For reference http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...he-nba/page/35. Yes bleacherreport sucks, but there are actual stats.

    Rose scores more with a better TS%. Rose is less TO prone with a higher usage rate. This is true even when including Rose's recent attempts to return from injury that have submarined his efficiency numbers. If you look at earlier splits, it is a blowout.

    The Nash/Phoenix example is illustrative whether you will admit it or not. Nash is a huge reason for Gortat's ascent.

    Deron has carried his team where exactly? Yes being the go to scorer on a team should be taken into account when examining efficiency/output, but it is certainly not some sort of trump card against Deron's deficiencies. You don't get respect for putting the team on your back but then immediately falling over because it is too heavy.

    Deron is the face of the the Nets franchise, and the Nets suck. The Nets suck worse than any team Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, or Rajon Rondo have ever started on. That is an indictment of Deron Williams as a star player in this league. Look at all the teams that are near the Nets in the standings. Do they have any players considered stars?

    You keep implying the Nets play hard which is hilarious.

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  • Blue
    replied
    His TS% is a mediocre 53%. Is him taking a career high in shots supposed to be some sort of positive? As far as running an offense, he leads the league in turnovers. He has nice assist numbers, but he is well below Nash and Rondo
    One, him shooting more is a result of having ****ty teammates who can't score. He's having to carry more of the offensive load, and he's responded with a near-career high PPG. He doesn't lead the league in turnovers-in fact Nash and Westbrook are both ahead of him, and even if you're going off a per game basis, the difference between Williams and Westbrook/Rondo/Nash is insignificant.

    The point is, his New Jersey Nets are rubbing shoulders with teams that are actively trying to lose when they have no such incentive. It speaks to how bad a team the Nets are.
    Yeah...? And? They'd be in contention for the worst team in the league without Deron. I don't see how playing hard when they don't have anything to play for reflects poorly on Deron Williams.

    Dirk won a championship last year. He earned some slack. Don't even try to make the comparison.
    Why, because you don't like the comparison? It's the only reason to just ignore that.

    He is worse at running an offense than Chris Paul, Nash, and Rondo.
    Debatable, but okay. He's better offensively than two of those players.

    He is marginally better than Rose at running an offense (.8 more assists but 1.1 more TOs). But Rose is so much better than Deron at scoring (and D) that Rose trumps Deron.
    lol, you can't even get the numbers right. It's a difference of just under one more turnover per game, and Deron Williams doesn't get to play with Joakim Noah and Luol Deng; you can't get assists if the other guys on your team can't make shots. Their shooting stats are a wash-Williams is hitting a higher % of threes and FTs, Rose is hitting a higher % of shots overall. Rose gets to drive to the basket; D-Will has to play with Kris Humphries. Saying Rose is a better defender is the funniest joke I've read in this thread in a long time.

    I'm not ignoring that he is a capable playmaker, but he isn't top 3. Tony Parker has basically identical stats as Deron while being less TO prone and slightly more efficient. Westbrook is probably going to be 2nd team All-NBA this year.
    Parker gets to play on a vastly superior team with a HoFer and one of the top coaches in the league. Westbrook's still a ballhog and subpar defender; he's going to be 2nd team All-NBA on the strength of his offense, nothing else.

    You're just blatantly ignoring the situation Deron Williams is in and the way he's carried that team, and focusing entirely on stats and coming in a little overweight. It's silly.

    Nash doesn't have the volume, but his efficiency is absurd.
    Not hard to be more efficient when you're taking half as many shots and a third as many threes.

    Explain to me how Steve Nash is contending for the 8th seed in the West with a similarly talented squad as the Nets?
    Marcin Gortat alone is better than the rest of New Jersey's roster. So no, they're not "similarly talented".

    Leave a comment:


  • Death To Sticky Threads
    replied
    Originally posted by blue5213 View Post
    Actually, he might be having one of the best seasons of his career. .3 PPG below his career high, taking a career-high 17.5 shots per game while playing the fewest minutes in a season since his rookie year.
    His TS% is a mediocre 53%. Is him taking a career high in shots supposed to be some sort of positive? As far as running an offense, he leads the league in turnovers. He has nice assist numbers, but he is well below Nash and Rondo


    Actually, they're ten games under .500.

    Semantics


    I don't see how this has anything to do with Deron Williams. Unless of course you're pointing out that he's leading a team that hasn't mailed it in despite being horribly out of the playoff picture and needing to finish in the top-3 to avoid losing a lottery pick. Sounds like an endorsement of D-Will's character to me.
    The point is, his New Jersey Nets are rubbing shoulders with teams that are actively trying to lose when they have no such incentive. It speaks to how bad a team the Nets are.


    So did Dirk Nowitzki. Is Dirk a loser, too?
    Dirk won a championship last year. He earned some slack. Don't even try to make the comparison.


    So you're just going to ignore that Deron Williams is one of the two or three best point guards in the league at running an offense. Okay, cool, it's not like Rose or Westbrook are non-traditional point guards or anything. Westbrook and Rose may be better at scoring, but Deron is so much better at running an offense that it's a wash.

    He is worse at running an offense than Chris Paul, Nash, and Rondo. He is marginally better than Rose at running an offense (.8 more assists but 1.1 more TOs). But Rose is so much better than Deron at scoring (and D) that Rose trumps Deron. I'm not ignoring that he is a capable playmaker, but he isn't top 3. Tony Parker has basically identical stats as Deron while being less TO prone and slightly more efficient. Westbrook is probably going to be 2nd team All-NBA this year.


    Maybe three or four years ago that was true.
    Nash doesn't have the volume, but his efficiency is absurd.


    LMAO. Take D-Will off the Nets and they're fighting the Bobcats for worst team in the league. But no, because he hasn't put up absurd numbers in that situation, he's no longer a top-tier PG.
    Explain to me how Steve Nash is contending for the 8th seed in the West with a similarly talented squad as the Nets?
    There you go.

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  • Blue
    replied
    Originally posted by Death To Sticky Threads View Post
    Yes the Nets suck, and it would be one thing if Deron was putting up gaudy stats on a terrible team a la Kevin Love last year, but his stats aren't even that great.
    Actually, he might be having one of the best seasons of his career. .3 PPG below his career high, taking a career-high 17.5 shots per game while playing the fewest minutes in a season since his rookie year.

    lol at 2 games back from 10th in the East as something to be proud of. They are 20 games under .500.
    Actually, they're ten games under .500.

    Every other bottom tier team is blatantly tanking, but since the Nets traded away their pick for Gerald "Heart and Soul" Wallace, they don't even have that as an excuse.
    I don't see how this has anything to do with Deron Williams. Unless of course you're pointing out that he's leading a team that hasn't mailed it in despite being horribly out of the playoff picture and needing to finish in the top-3 to avoid losing a lottery pick. Sounds like an endorsement of D-Will's character to me.

    He came into the season clearly overweight which speaks to his poor intangibles.
    So did Dirk Nowitzki. Is Dirk a loser, too?

    "Westbrook and Rose pale to him to him as a ball handler". OK? Doesn't change the fact that both Westbrook and Rose are far superior scoring the ball.
    So you're just going to ignore that Deron Williams is one of the two or three best point guards in the league at running an offense. Okay, cool, it's not like Rose or Westbrook are non-traditional point guards or anything. Westbrook and Rose may be better at scoring, but Deron is so much better at running an offense that it's a wash.

    Nash? Deron isn't a significant upgrade.
    Maybe three or four years ago that was true.

    Deron is tier two along with Rondo, Nash, and Parker. Still very good, but no longer top tier.
    LMAO. Take D-Will off the Nets and they're fighting the Bobcats for worst team in the league. But no, because he hasn't put up absurd numbers in that situation, he's no longer a top-tier PG.

    Leave a comment:


  • Death To Sticky Threads
    replied
    The Nets supporting cast is not any worse than the Suns, but look where Steve Nash has Phoenix in a tougher conference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Death To Sticky Threads
    replied
    Originally posted by henry3 View Post
    Read Bold.
    Yes the Nets suck, and it would be one thing if Deron was putting up gaudy stats on a terrible team a la Kevin Love last year, but his stats aren't even that great. lol at 2 games back from 10th in the East as something to be proud of. They are 20 games under .500. Every other bottom tier team is blatantly tanking, but since the Nets traded away their pick for Gerald "Heart and Soul" Wallace, they don't even have that as an excuse.

    He came into the season clearly overweight which speaks to his poor intangibles. Running a HOF coach out of town sticks on you the rest of your career. Sorry it does.

    "Westbrook and Rose pale to him to him as a ball handler". OK? Doesn't change the fact that both Westbrook and Rose are far superior scoring the ball. Yeah, he is a huge upgrade over Rondo as a scorer. Nash? Deron isn't a significant upgrade.

    Deron is tier two along with Rondo, Nash, and Parker. Still very good, but no longer top tier.

    Leave a comment:


  • henry3
    replied
    Originally posted by Death To Sticky Threads View Post
    lol at the Nets being absurdly competitive. Are you listening to yourself? But hey, at least the Nets have a heart and soul with Gerald Wallace. That trade will work out great for them. Do you have any idea how crap that team is? Not just on paper but as a team in general? They have no identity. No realistic second or quality third scoring options on roster. No interior defence to speak off. Not that Williams does an amazing job at stopping guard penetration but up until Wallace arrived there was about zero chance of them limiting an athletic scorer but now I'm off track. They are 2 wins away from being the 10th best team in the East.

    You can't feel sorry for Deron considering he dug his own grave. He does suck at defense and has been so for the last 2 years. He is overweight and clearly doesn't care about D. Not sure about him being overweight but he ran Sloan out of Utah. Fine. We get it. What does that have to do with how important he is to the team?

    He is very talented as a passer and scorer. He is still inferior scoring the rock compared to Westbrook and Rose. He is inferior to Paul, Rondo, and Nash with regards to playmaking. He also bombs the intangibles test. See: Running off Jerry Sloan, allowing himself to be roasted by Jeremy Lin. Westbrook and Rose pale to him to him as a ball handler and he is a significant upgrade over anything Rondo or Nash will offer you as a scorer, its why he was consensusly voted as number 3 point guard. As for including Linsanity as a function of intangibles did you also know the god point guard Mr Rose went 12-32 against Lin with 4 turn overs? Sure the Bulls won but I guess thats what happens when you don't play on a crap team. Running your old coach out of town has zilch to do with how your intangibles show through on a team now. Especially when every win your team gets is pretty much entirely due to you and no one else. Gerald is there now so even if he does crazily choose to come back he has some hope of having one decent teammate

    He isn't a top tier point guard anymore.You are high.
    Read Bold.

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  • Death To Sticky Threads
    replied
    Originally posted by henry3 View Post
    Williams plays in a scheme with next to no talent beside him so how well he plays defense doesn't really show up unless you watch him all the time. He may be low effort on defense but he certainly isnt one of the worst. I can't put him any lower than 5th regardless of scheme, he is the best all rounder in the league besides maybe CP3, considering he can shoot, assist and rebound with the best of them on a given night. He plays on the Nets and makes them absurdly competitive considering how **** that team is on paper. What more do you want from the guy? Rondo doesn't make that team better. Neither does Nash. Even Paul couldn't really improve them beyond what Deron does to a certain extent.

    Batum is a soft player who is technically sound. Wallace gives your team a heart and a soul.
    lol at the Nets being absurdly competitive. Are you listening to yourself? But hey, at least the Nets have a heart and soul with Gerald Wallace. That trade will work out great for them.

    You can't feel sorry for Deron considering he dug his own grave. He does suck at defense and has been so for the last 2 years. He is overweight and clearly doesn't care about D.

    He is very talented as a passer and scorer. He is still inferior scoring the rock compared to Westbrook and Rose. He is inferior to Paul, Rondo, and Nash with regards to playmaking. He also bombs the intangibles test. See: Running off Jerry Sloan, allowing himself to be roasted by Jeremy Lin.

    He isn't a top tier point guard anymore.

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  • vikingfan
    replied
    forgot to add em up, will be up tonight and post the next thread, im sure there will be major questions after the big 3

    Leave a comment:


  • henry3
    replied
    Originally posted by whatdoyouwant711 View Post
    Agreed on all points, but Nash doesn't make his team better? They're 8th in the conference right now with the Gortat (admittedly a good player), Grant Hill's corpse, Jared Dudley (a backup on every other playoff team) and Channing Frye (ditto) as their next 4 best players. It's completely unbelievable they've got control of their own playoff destiny at this point, and it's almost all because of Nash.
    I was refering to if they put Nash on the Nets are they still as competitive as they are currently with Deron Williams. I don't think anyone can fathom how horrid it is when Kris Humphries is your second best scorer. Sure, Green has gotten better as the season went on, Wallace is on the team now but Morrow and Brooks are still the only 'bright spots' besides Deron. The Suns are designed around Nash and built with spot up shooters to take advantage of his passing vision. The Nets don't have that sort of offensive talent anywhere on their roster besides Morrow really and I doubt Nash is capable of mustering 15-20 points a game even if he can dish the ball out better than Deron to inferior talent.

    It shocked me the Suns are in the playoff race earlier this month but considering the West has considerably weakened over the past few years in comparison to East so by the time you factor in the fact they have Sactown and GS in division its really not so unbelievable, atleast not for me.
    Last edited by henry3; 04-21-2012, 05:06 PM.

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  • whatdoyouwant711
    replied
    Originally posted by henry3 View Post
    Williams plays in a scheme with next to no talent beside him so how well he plays defense doesn't really show up unless you watch him all the time. He may be low effort on defense but he certainly isnt one of the worst. I can't put him any lower than 5th regardless of scheme, he is the best all rounder in the league besides maybe CP3, considering he can shoot, assist and rebound with the best of them on a given night. He plays on the Nets and makes them absurdly competitive considering how **** that team is on paper. What more do you want from the guy? Rondo doesn't make that team better. Neither does Nash. Even Paul couldn't really improve them beyond what Deron does to a certain extent.

    Batum is a soft player who is technically sound. Wallace gives your team a heart and a soul.
    Agreed on all points, but Nash doesn't make his team better? They're 8th in the conference right now with the Gortat (admittedly a good player), Grant Hill's corpse, Jared Dudley (a backup on every other playoff team) and Channing Frye (ditto) as their next 4 best players. It's completely unbelievable they've got control of their own playoff destiny at this point, and it's almost all because of Nash.

    Leave a comment:


  • henry3
    replied
    Fair enough.

    Leave a comment:

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