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**Dumb Azz Kracka** · 03-07-2008, 11:47 PM

Not that I'm defending this guy, cuz honestly I don't really give two pig sh*ts if you rip on him or not...I just want to try and make some sense out of what he may be trying to say with his mock vs. his player rankings. You're taking the two listings as a single action when in reality they are two separate things altogether.

His player rankings are ordered lists of who HE thinks are the best players regardless of position or team need, etc. It's based solely off of their potential at the next level.

His mock draft, I believe, is based off of what he feels other teams will do. Now maybe he has Ellis rated as the #1 DT on HIS board, but he has some kind of inside info. that makes him think the Falcons like Dorsey more than Ellis, so if he puts a DT at #3 if he wants to make an acurate assessment of what the draft will be he's forced to put his #2 above his #1.

Whether he thinks it's intelligent or not isn't his job to make an accurate mock, atleast if he's worth his weight as an evaluator. Because giving out these mocks he's not only being a talent evaluator for the players but he's also being an evaluator evaluator for the GM's and team Presidents. And you yourself gave Mayock his props earlier in your "Fire Todd McShay" blog, so I'm assuming you think he has some idea of what he's doing.

DAK

**Matt McGuire** · 03-07-2008, 11:56 PM

Mayock is the best college football talent evaluator/NFL Draft expert there is on television. He is a horrendous mock drafter though, like Kiper.

If his mock is based off what he thinks teams will do and not his own rankings, they why does McFadden fall out of the Top 10 and Chris Long would go #1???

**Walter** · 03-08-2008, 12:11 AM

I don't have a problem with his choosing Dorsey over Ellis, even though he has Ellis No. 1. Whatever.

Chris Long going sixth is something I don't get.

**Dumb Azz Kracka** · 03-08-2008, 12:16 AM

Hell if I know...maybe he feels that teams are starting to wonder about his ability to hold up in the NFL...maybe he feels that teams are ranking other position players ahead of him now due to their lack of getting certain free agents they had their eyes on and now need to get that player in the draft...maybe he feels that it would be funny to d*ck with us so you and I would be arguing about this right this very minute...I have no damn idea, lol. All I know is that it makes perfect sense to ME that somebody would have their own rankings and then do a mock as to where he's predicting the guy will be picked. What's the point of having a mock if it's where you think the guy should be picked. I don't give a crap where you think the guy SHOULD be picked, with all due respect, I care about where you think he WILL be picked. Cuz that is what ultimately will effect my team.

Or maybe he's just trying to see how many times he can get McShay to flipflop before the actual draft and he's just d*cking with ESPN.

DAK

**Matt McGuire** · 03-08-2008, 12:21 AM

I don't see it happening because I feel Long is a lock to go #1. That said if he doesn't go #1, the next possible destination could truly be the Jets. Let's say the Dolphins do draft Matt Ryan (which I don't see happening at all, just speculating for fun).

1. MIA: Matt Ryan
2. STL: Glenn Dorsey
3. ATL: Jake Long/Sedrick Ellis
4. OAK: Darren McFadden
5. KC: Jake Long/Sedrick Ellis (whoever the Falcons don't pick)
6. NYJ: Chris Long

The logic here is that the Rams could move Carriker outside to LDE and draft Dorsey for his talent at DT and pass rush ability. You can even interchange Ellis there and Dorsey could be going to Atlanta or KC (with Jake Long)

The Falcons won't draft him they have Abraham and Anderosn, no chance they go DE again.

The Raiders are going to take Darren McFadden and cut Lamont Jordan (before or after draft) ... I think before if he is due a roster bonus soon.

Chiefs aren't going to draft Chris Long (or Vernon Gholston) with Jared Allen and Tamba Hali.

Maybe I'm wrong though and let's say the Dolphins take Jake Long (which I don't see happening either ... I truly feel Chris Long-Miami is as near a lock as possible but happened yet so the potential is there for it to happen).

1. MIA: Jake Long
2. STL: Glenn Dorsey/Sedrick Ellis
3. ATL: Dorsey/Ellis/Ryan (Ryan very unlikely here)
4. OAK: Darren McFadden/Dorsey/Ellis/Vernon Gholston (McFadden extremely likely here)
5. KC: Dorsey/Ellis/Clady/McKelvin

Again Chris Long can still fall, but I'm very certain he will be the #1 pick and this is all a moot point. I was just saying if Long doesn't go #1 he can very easily fall out of the top 5.

**Matt McGuire** · 03-08-2008, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Dumb Azz Kracka View Post

What's the point of having a mock if it's where you think the guy should be picked. I don't give a crap where you think the guy SHOULD be picked, with all due respect, I care about where you think he WILL be picked. Cuz that is what ultimately will effect my team
DAK

I 100% agree with you. In my mind I wouldn't draft Chad Henne in the first three rounds but the buzz seems to be he is a 2nd/early 3rd round pick.

If Woodson doesn't go to Minnesota at #17 in my mock he falls to the 2nd round.

There are a lot of players in my mock where I personally disagree where they will go but I have them there anyways. I try my very best to be objective.

**Walter** · 03-08-2008, 12:43 AM

Chris Long is going to the Rams if the Fins don't take him.

**Matt McGuire** · 03-08-2008, 12:46 AM

I don't know. From what I saw at the combine he might have the ability to play RDE. Go DE 2 years in a row (Carriker was a DE/DT hybrid)? I don't know.

They have big needs at DT and Jake Long can be an elite RT in this league.

**yem123** · 03-08-2008, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by Dumb Azz Kracka View Post

You're taking the two listings as a single action when in reality they are two separate things altogether.

His player rankings are ordered lists of who HE thinks are the best players regardless of position or team need, etc. It's based solely off of their potential at the next level.

His mock draft, I believe, is based off of what he feels other teams will do. Now maybe he has Ellis rated as the #1 DT on HIS board, but he has some kind of inside info. that makes him think the Falcons like Dorsey more than Ellis, so if he puts a DT at #3 if he wants to make an acurate assessment of what the draft will be he's forced to put his #2 above his #1.

Whether he thinks it's intelligent or not isn't his job to make an accurate mock, atleast if he's worth his weight as an evaluator. Because giving out these mocks he's not only being a talent evaluator for the players but he's also being an evaluator evaluator for the GM's and team Presidents.

I was going to say the exact same thing.... but you said it for me

**Lab** · 03-08-2008, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Matt Mcguire

Mayock is the best college football talent evaluator/NFL Draft expert there is on television.

McGuire, I've seen to talk up Mayock a lot. What specifically has he done to make you think he's such a good talent evaluator? I'm not trying to argue; I'm just curious why you think he's so great. Have his predictions been more accurate than anyone else over the years? Do you personally just agree with a lot of what he says? What is it? I've listened to him, and he's clearly well-informed, but I don't know that he's head-and-shoulders about everyone else out there evaluating talent.

Also, I suppose he might be one of the best ones on TV simply because there aren't that many bright bulbs on TV to begin with. But I've seen to claim that he's also better than most (all?) print media evaluators, so I'm not just comparing him to other TV-heads.

What gives?

**Matt McGuire** · 03-08-2008, 01:43 PM

Well the top two in my opinion are Mike Mayock and Ron Jaworski. Basically 1A and 1B.

I'll get into this later because eventually I'm going to blog about ESPN vs. NFLN draft coverage, but I love these guys so much because they do their homework and they break down game film like it is an art.

Also, Mayock called Donte Whitner #8 back in 2006 when no one else did. He was the only person. He also said Aaron Rodgers would fall to #24 in 2005. I love that he came out and bashed Darren McFadden (just like another one of my faves in Brian Baldinger, who was the first to knock DMC). He doesn't care what everyone else thinks and he makes bold (sometimes logical) predictitions.

In terms of mock drafts, my favorite is myself (I'm not gonna lie) because I do think I'm the best. #2 would have to be either Walter or Chris Steuber (just read his mock, some picks I like and some picks I don't like).

**animal52** · 03-08-2008, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Matt McGuire View Post

Well the top two in my opinion are Mike Mayock and Ron Jaworski. Basically 1A and 1B.

I'll get into this later because eventually I'm going to blog about ESPN vs. NFLN draft coverage, but I love these guys so much because they do their homework and they break down game film like it is an art.

Also, Mayock called Donte Whitner #8 back in 2006 when no one else did. He was the only person. He also said Aaron Rodgers would fall to #24 in 2005. I love that he came out and bashed Darren McFadden (just like another one of my faves in Brian Baldinger, who was the first to knock DMC). He doesn't care what everyone else thinks and he makes bold (sometimes logical) predictitions.

In terms of mock drafts, my favorite is myself (I'm not gonna lie) because I do think I'm the best. #2 would have to be either Walter or Chris Steuber (just read his mock, some picks I like and some picks I don't like).

I'm gonna take Matt at face value here. I've seen Matt criticize a lot of people, so when I see him dish out some love for someone else's expertise, I'll take it to the bank.

**Joey_Potter** · 03-08-2008, 04:41 PM

Well I still say the Falcons may take a jump at Jake Long. I mean all their moves this offseason have been to improve their offense. Why should the #3 Pick be any different. And Long is the TOP Offensive player in this years draft on my board. If I did a Mock I would have Long #3.

#1 Miami- DE/OLB Chris Long
#2 St. Louis- DE/OLB Vernon Gohlston
#3 Atlanta- OT Jake Long
#4 Oakland- RB Darren Mcfadden
#5 Kansas City- OT Ryan Clady

I know Clady is unlikely but he fills a big need and is the #2 O-Tackle in the Draft. Mayock should think more like me on Mocks.

**jimmyp** · 03-08-2008, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by Matt McGuire View Post

1. Miami: Matt Ryan

*#1 pick proves he is a total homer, but he made a good point in saying Parcells did pull the trigger on Bledsoe #1 overall also.

Why does picking Ryan number 1 prove that Mayock is a homer? If Mayock was the only expert in the country with this, or if Ryan wasn't the consensus (more or less - not arguing this point) number one QB on the board then maybe it offers some weight.

Saying on the basis of one pick that isn't even that unreasonable that he is a total homer is not really fair.

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