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My 5 round mock - FINALLY finished

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  • ZN0rseman
    replied
    Originally posted by noidroid View Post
    So who would you want them to take? Brohm is off the board.
    Yeah, I should have read through that more carefully, I missed both the Brohm and Justice selections. However, rather than grab a DE who won't help our pass rush, I'd rather see the team invest in either Chris Williams, Brandon Albert or Gosder Cherilus with that pick.

    Originally posted by noidroid View Post
    Also, there's no gaurantee that Jackson will still be availible in the 2nd if you pass on Merling in the 1st. The mock you have in the signature looks really good but there's no telling what will happen on draft day.
    I agree that there is no garantee that Jackson will be there in the 2nd, but after him there are other guys too. Either way, I'd rather get the BPA than to reach and draft a player who doesn't really fit our needs just because we have a need at that position on paper.

    Originally posted by noidroid View Post
    Cottam is definately a sure thing but that's what the third round is for - taking risks on talented guys
    Also quite true, but I just don't think Cottam is worth even that early of a selection, not with so many other more proven and comparably talented TE's still on the board who don't have the extensive injury history.

    Originally posted by noidroid View Post
    And Justice was off the board when you got Legursky.
    Yeah, I missed that too. Should have read through it better.

    Leave a comment:


  • IlliniVikeFan23
    replied
    Originally posted by IlliniVikeFan23 View Post
    Solid Vikings pick and good overall mock.

    I also currently have Merling going to the Vikes in my mock but I am having a tough decision deciding between Merling, Calais Campbell, and Quentin Groves. All have there question marks but all have upside.
    Whoops didn't look at rounds 2-5...lol

    Not very fond of any of those picks for the Vikes.

    Leave a comment:


  • IlliniVikeFan23
    replied
    Solid Vikings pick and good overall mock.

    I also currently have Merling going to the Vikes in my mock but I am having a tough decision deciding between Merling, Calais Campbell, and Quentin Groves. All have there question marks but all have upside.

    Leave a comment:


  • RoyP
    replied
    Originally posted by noidroid View Post
    I had CAR taking Williams and HOU grabbing Otah until very recently. I think that would have been a mistake on my part because Winston is good at RT and there's no reason to think Otah can play LT.

    I really wouldnt be upset if we took Williams though, as I said in my writeup it all depends on whether or not Jordan Gross can play LT. I based my change on recent interviews with Gross where he sounds like he thinks he can.

    I disagree that you don't need a RB though, half the guys you listed will get injured and the other half will suck. Sorry.
    I'd be pretty happy with Chris Williams and Ray Rice. I just don't see any of the top OL still on the board when we pick. In fact, I'd love to trade down to #25 with the Seahawks and pick up another 3rd round pick. The guy I want and believe will be available is Antoine Cason. Dunta Robinson is a big Question mark at this point because of injury. Cason and Bennett might allow the Texans to survive against the Colts. Also, you have OL Jeremy Zuttah going in the 5th round and I believe he is exactly the type of player that Alex Gibbs, Gary Kubiak, et. al can work with.

    Leave a comment:


  • noidroid
    replied
    I don't think he's terrible or anything, I just think he drops to the mid to late 2nd. Drawing further attention to his injury isn't really helping his cause, just ask Zach Bowman just how much that can hurt you. Someone will take a risk with Kelly but I don't see a team that would want to do so in the 1st round when there are so many other good players availible.

    To further the Mike Williams comparison, a slow 40 didn't hurt Williams too much because speed was never perceived to be his strong point. Whereas Kelly isn't an elite WR prospect without that speed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Casey
    replied
    Originally posted by noidroid View Post
    My take on Kelly:

    It's just tough to seperate in the NFL with that kind of speed, ask Mike Williams. Kelly was only presumed to be the #1 WR in the first place because we saw him running wild on a bunch of college secondaries and assumed he was fast for his size. There's no reason to draft him without that speed, he had a great year but he's certainly not a polished prospect. He will need to develop tremendous route running and ball skills to produce in the NFL.

    He knew exactly how much he had riding on that workout, that's why he put it off so long and that's why he lashed out when things didn't go his way. Add in the injury concerns about his knee and you have three good reasons not to draft him in a league where you only need one.

    Campbell is just plain lazy, I watched him a lot in the ACC and there is no way I would ever want him on my team.
    I don't think he was at full speed, and I'll submit this as evidence.

    Rivals.com said he had a 4.5 40 yd dash in high school.

    Scout.com had this to say about him in high school
    "High School: Caught 29 passes for 638 yards and 9 touchdowns as a senior ... as a junior, had 27 catches for 826 yards and six touchdowns ... three-time all-district first team selection at wide receiver ... named First team all-state his final two years ... has a 38 inch vertical jump ... bench presses 300 pounds ... coach: John King."

    If his vertical was in fact 38 inches in high school, which I understand can be inflated, a 32 inch vertical would indicate that his injuries have slowed down his explosiveness. Thus, hampering his 40 time.

    If he wasn't healthy enough for the combine, and wasn't healthy enough for Oklahoma's original Pro Day, what makes you assume his numbers at the 4/9 workout were at full strength?

    Also, while him coming in overweight is the other parallel drawn to Mike Williams, understand that Kelly's extra weight is likely due to his injury, and possibly an indication of the severity. While this doesn't necessarily help his draft stock, it could explain a lot, and help to indicate how much effort he could actually give.

    On the Campbell statement, I agree with you. However, I don't really take into account who I'd want on my team when compiling a mock draft, or critiquing one. I don't want Felix Jones, Jonathan Stewart, or Darren McFadden on my team. However, I don't think that precludes any of them from a first round selection, or Jones from selection by my team.

    I'm getting long winded, so I'll wait for your response to continue.

    Leave a comment:


  • noidroid
    replied
    So who would you want them to take? Brohm is off the board.

    Even if Merling's not a perfect fit, he's one of the best players availbile at that point - and he happens to play the position you need desperately enough draft back to back(apparently). I've looked at tape of Merling and Harvey, if CAR goes DE in the 1st I would rather we end up with Merling. Big, strong, athletic kids tend to become better pass rushers after a couple years of NFL coaching - Mario Williams wasn't an exceptional pass rusher either when he got drafted.

    Also, there's no gaurantee that Jackson will still be availible in the 2nd if you pass on Merling in the 1st. The mock you have in the signature looks really good but there's no telling what will happen on draft day.

    Cottam is definately a sure thing but that's what the third round is for - taking risks on talented guys

    And Justice was off the board when you got Legursky.

    Leave a comment:


  • ZN0rseman
    replied
    The only pick you have the Vikings taking that I would approve of through round 3 is DT Marcus Harrison from Arkansas.

    Other than that, their draft was pretty horrible.

    In the 1st round:
    You have them taking Phlip Merling. That would be a bad selection for Minnesota considering that he's not a very effective pass rusher. He's more of a run stopping end and the Vikings have DE's that can stop the run and create pressure, where they are lacking is a guy who will actually get to the QB on a consistent basis.

    In the 2nd round:
    Taking FS DaJuan Morgan ahead of DE Lawrence Jackson would be a huge mistake for the Vikings. Even with the addition of Merling. (If they were to make that mistake in round 1.)

    In the 3rd round:
    TE Brad Cottam is being drafted way too early considering his lack of playing time at the college level and his extensive injury history.

    In the 4th round:
    Eric Ainge was a good selection where he was taken. Still though, passing on Brohm in the first for Merling??? Not smart.

    In the 5th round:
    C Doug Legursky over C Steve Justice is just plain crazy.
    Last edited by ZN0rseman; 04-14-2008, 03:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Drumsteroo
    replied
    I have been seeing him move ahead of Otah on a few different sites, wasnt really sure why. Do you think were going to start Beekman at G this year, or what is our plan there? I know were going to draft a T, but I still dont like having Garza starting on our line

    Leave a comment:


  • regoob2
    replied
    Originally posted by Drumsteroo View Post
    You would take Cherilus over Otah? Benson is done, his lack of effort got him hurt and I dont think he will fully recover from the knee injury. I agree that a good OL can make average RB better, probably is neither or line nor the RB's are even average! After a night of sleep though, I have gone back to OL for sure in RD1. That need is too great.

    Now I fell terrible for Mendenhall, I will probably end up as a Lion, and his great talent will be wasted on sh**y team, i.e Barry Sanders
    Right now ya I would, I was watching more tape on Otah and he looks average imo.

    Leave a comment:


  • noidroid
    replied
    My take on Kelly:

    It's just tough to seperate in the NFL with that kind of speed, ask Mike Williams. Kelly was only presumed to be the #1 WR in the first place because we saw him running wild on a bunch of college secondaries and assumed he was fast for his size. There's no reason to draft him without that speed, he had a great year but he's certainly not a polished prospect. He will need to develop tremendous route running and ball skills to produce in the NFL.

    He knew exactly how much he had riding on that workout, that's why he put it off so long and that's why he lashed out when things didn't go his way. Add in the injury concerns about his knee and you have three good reasons not to draft him in a league where you only need one.



    Campbell is just plain lazy, I watched him a lot in the ACC and there is no way I would ever want him on my team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Casey
    replied
    Originally posted by noidroid View Post
    Some good points there Casey, I actually was very aware of your troubles at WR but I chose to address other needs with your 4 picks. Sadly, I now think 25 is too early for Kelly so your options in this mock would be Manningham or Doucet.

    I'm starting to think Albert is going to go in the top 15 but I'm not making that big of a change at this point, it would be an incredible amount of work.
    I understand your reasoning on Kelly. However, I disagree with your conclusion. I don't doubt that it will drop him, but I don't think a guy goes from being the top WR prospect to a 2nd or 3rd rounder because he had a bad workout on a bum leg.

    Robert Meachem, though his workouts were good, had serious, and later substantiated and well chronicled leg issues. He still went in the 1st round to the Saints.

    However, love or hate my opinions. I'll shed some light onto my outlook, at least the bullet points.

    I think that Brian Brohm, Calais Campbell, Malcolm Kelly and Felix Jones will still be first round picks.

    I base this on a few things.

    What I call the "hyperbole machine" is a dangerous trap to fall into. 40 times are a an easy to understand, flashy number. It is the skill position equivalent to one's bench press max. I've seen alot of guys who can bench press 300 lbs, but can't scratch the middle of their backs. Likewise, there are guys who can run in the 4.3's who turn out to be terrible runningbacks and wide receivers. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but many NFL GMs are, and each year there is a handful of "shockers" who were pre-combine 1st rounders who end up still there.

    In Brohm's case, I think that at 17, 20, 29, and 30 there is a potential to see a QB drafted by the team that owns that pick. If it is the Packers though, understand that it will be very much a Brees/Rivers situation. Also, I think that Seattle will seriously consider taking Brohm if he falls to 25, or might trade out, like I feel the Chargers would do in the same circumstance.

    As far as Campbell goes, his combine numbers were terrible, and his pro-day doesn't vault him much higher. However, considering his massive frame and long arms, his bench press numbers are a reduced concern in my opinion. His speed and quickness are a concern, however, I think he'd be a great fit in Jacksonville at 26, or a handful of teams around that spot.

    I guess my point for the latter portion of this post is that while I feel that combine numbers mean something, I think that they can alter a once perceived elite talent's draft stock by somewhere between a half round (in most cases) or a full round (In cases like Mario Manningham, pre-pot admission letter)

    Leave a comment:


  • Drumsteroo
    replied
    Originally posted by regoob2 View Post
    I personally don't like the idea. We absolutely need OL help. We still have 3 capable RBs which none are stars and Benson is a bust for a top 5 pick he still is talented. I'd take Gosher Cherilus over Mendenhall if Clady, Williams and Albert are off the board. Any RB can be shut down but a good RB and a good OL are tough to stop.
    You would take Cherilus over Otah? Benson is done, his lack of effort got him hurt and I dont think he will fully recover from the knee injury. I agree that a good OL can make average RB better, probably is neither or line nor the RB's are even average! After a night of sleep though, I have gone back to OL for sure in RD1. That need is too great.

    Now I fell terrible for Mendenhall, I will probably end up as a Lion, and his great talent will be wasted on sh**y team, i.e Barry Sanders

    Leave a comment:


  • Luke #28
    replied
    Originally posted by huskers3333 View Post
    The bears can't take Williams because the Texans need him
    Yea its illegal :PP

    Leave a comment:


  • regoob2
    replied
    Originally posted by Drumsteroo View Post
    regoob -

    Since you obviously are a Bears fan too, what do you think of Mendenhall at 14 if hes available? I know we need OL, but the more I consider other RB, I think there is a plausible dropoff after him, he could be a stud and we can get OL help in rd2 and later. What are your thoughts?
    I personally don't like the idea. We absolutely need OL help. We still have 3 capable RBs which none are stars and Benson is a bust for a top 5 pick he still is talented. I'd take Gosher Cherilus over Mendenhall if Clady, Williams and Albert are off the board. Any RB can be shut down but a good RB and a good OL are tough to stop.

    Leave a comment:

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